[Erykun]: --.--

[Sven Welkenson]: Not so well huh? Is it because the big, bad George W. won?

[Erykun]: yes i lost a lot of freinds

[Sven Welkenson]: Awww I'm so sorry...want a hug?

[Erykun]: ok

[Sven Welkenson]: Then go ask one of your friends for a nice, big hug....oh wait...that's right. Sorry hehe

[Erykun]: waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa T.T

[Sven Welkenson]: ^_______________________^

[Erykun]: meany, monique can i have a hug

[Sven Welkenson]: Yeah, meany monique. Give her a hug.

[Erykun]: hey don't call my freind meany you loser

[Erykun]: hello hello hello its its so so quiet quiet quiet

[Pnelma Tirian]: Okay, I'm confused. How can so many people hate bush and yet he still won the '04 election? I mean, how many of you people actually live in the U.S? (not trying to flame here, just really curious)

[Maurer's conclusions]: The average American is ignorant to what goes on outside the borders of his own nation, and the corrupt and biased media is able to thus infiltrate the psyche of the more impressionable and deluded sheep-like masses who swallow such pap like baby birds awaiting regurgitated worms.

[dominoe]: thats true

[kduncan]: To be honest, the average American is ignorant as to what goes on inside the borders of his or HER own country, some didn't even know who was on the presidential ballot. And yes, the media is (largely) biased, particularly FOX news, that's why I get most of my information regarding what is happening politically in this nation from C-SPAN. For international news I like to watch BBC World. I'd say the pap swallowers are those who believed we invaded Iraq because they were an imminent threat, er, they had weapons of mass destruction, er, no.. they were harbouring terrorists, um.. wait! I know, it was to liberate the Iraqi people. Yeah, that's it.

[dominoe]: kk

[kduncan]: Eldheler, to say that alot of Florida is Hispanic because there is a large hispanic population in one Florida city is, again, a misconception, and a stereotype. In truth, the Hispanic population (largely Cuban) is pretty much limited to the Miami area. You'd be hard pressed indeed to find a handfull of Cubans in north Florida, or even many Cubans north of Orlando. And if you don't think that north Florida is home to baby back ribs, grits, chitlin's and the like, you are very sadly misinformed. Same is true of the southern accent. You really need to stop basing your perception of an entire state on what you have seen in one city. One could easily say that New York is a dirty, gritty grimy,

[kduncan]: crime-ridden state if they've only been to NYC, but much of New York is rolling pastures in the west, and beautiful, pristine mountians in the central and northeast parts. Or one could generalise that all of California is like Los Angeles or Hollywood. Stereotypes only make a person look uninformed. I live in Florida, and have for roughly fifteen years. I have a mother in south Florida (so, yeah, I've been there), a sister in central Florida, and my partners parents live in that retirement haven just north of Tampa.. I do believe I know what I'm talking about, unlike the occassional visitor who's been, apparently, only to the Miami area.

[dominoe]: .

[simply sweety]: damn it Bush won!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dominoe]: it was fixed

[simply sweety]: i think so too but i am very dissapointed in Kerry for the simple fact of he said he would fight until the end and he gave up

[dominoe]: ohh thats just supid

[simply sweety]: for me being dissapointed???

[dominoe]: yeah

[simply sweety]: why is that???

[dominoe]: bush is a dusbag

[simply sweety]: i know but what does that have to do with Kerry bailing???

[dominoe]: nothing

[simply sweety]: exactly but our country is going to be blown up in the next month with Bush in office

[dominoe]: your country not mine

[simply sweety]: exactly so you have nothing to worrie about and i DO!!!

[dominoe]: sorry to hear good luck to ya

[Maurer's conclusions]: It is spelt worry. The USA is the most powerful nation in the world, and if it is in the hands of an ignorant, gung-ho leader who was elected due to the oblivious population, it is the world's problem.

[simply sweety]: and so you think it isn't my problem????? it is!!!! and i don't care how it is spelled i am a bad speller no matter what!!!

[Maurer's conclusions]: The USA is part of the world, although the majority of Americans may have forgotten it.

[dominoe]: bad luck

[simply sweety]: i have not forgotten that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Rondel]: What I find most interesting about this argument about whether or not Florida is a southern state (says the daughter of a Mississippi Civil Rights activist who thought her Daddy was a Yankee because he was from North Mississippi) is the fact that on the one hand, [Cat0132] seems to object to stereotypes of the South (racist, ignorant, inbred, etc.), yet wishes (according to his own statement) to define Florida's "Southern-ness" by whether or not it conforms to -- what? "The stereotypical South". Which is it? Are you pro-stereotyping where it suits your purposes, and against it the rest of the time (say, when it reflects the average level of education within, say, Tennessee)? Or what?

[dominoe]: huh?

[simply sweety]: yes that confused me too

[dominoe]: i dont get it do u?

[simply sweety]: no i don't amaizingly cause i get most things

[dominoe]: me too

[simply sweety]: yup yup yup

[dominoe]: yeah

[simply sweety]: soooo...???

[dominoe]: never mind

[simply sweety]: i meant so as in what do you want to talk aobut???

[dominoe]: never mind

[simply sweety]: ok fine fine fine then g2g ttyl bye

[dominoe]: bye

[simply sweety]: ttyl

[dominoe]: huh?

[kduncan]: For those who don't believe that a reinstatement of the draft has been and is being considered: H.R.163 reads as follows: Universal National Service Act of 2003 - Declares that it is the obligation of every U.S. citizen, and every other person residing in the United States, between the ages of 18 and 26 to perform a two-year period of national service, unless exempted, either as a member of an active or reserve component of the armed forces or in a civilian capacity that promotes national defense. Requires induction into national service by the President. Sets forth provisions governing: (1) induction deferments, postponements, and exemptions, including exemption of a conscientious objector

[kduncan]: from military service that includes combatant training; and (2) discharge following national service.

[dominoe]: no boady cares

[kduncan]: Bill #S.89 reads as follows: Universal National Service Act of 2003 - Declares that it is the obligation of every U.S. citizen, and every other person residing in the United States, between the ages of 18 and 26 to perform a two-year period of national service, unless exempted, either as a member of an active or reserve component of the armed forces or in a civilian capacity that promotes national defense. Requires induction into national service by the President. Sets forth provisions governing: (1) induction deferments, postponements, and exemptions, including exemption of a conscientious objector from military service that includes combatant training;

[kduncan]: and (2) discharge following national service.

[dominoe]: watever

[kduncan]: You don't have to take my word for it, you can look the bills up at http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:SN00089:@@@L&summ2=m&. Still want to argue that an imminent draft is just a rumour? Mind you, Republicans AND Democrats are both in on this one.

[dominoe]: no boady cares

[Doormat]: lmao..boady, learn to spell f*cktard.

[dominoe]: u cant spell

[Dil*]: ....you're the one who can't spell..

[dominoe]: really?

[to a new?]: see its anarchy bush brought

[Dil*]: eh? anarchy..nope, more like fascism.

[Elvenlord]: You can visit my wiki page, Land of the idiots while you have time. Tomorrow it won't be up anymore...

[Cat0132]: *sigh* First of all I am not racist, espically not against hispanics, in fact there is a very nice one who goes to my school, Romeu. They also manage/work at Dounkin Donuts, which is deffiantly the BEST place in the entire world. And, I have BEEN to NY, both NY city, and the mountians. The city is amazing, and the mountians are simply beautiful, and if you domt believe me go here Eldheler's Pictures and tell me those are beautiful. I have also been to Mississippi right outside of Jackson helping rebuild houses, I've been almost everywhere east of St. Louis, I havent been to Miami though, my sister has, she's told me about it, she loves it there, the culture is really cool, but she

[Cat0132]: was afraid she didnt know enough spanish to live there. And that's all my spanish class is this year, the culture and right now we are just doing the culture within America with the Hispanics. I've seen alot of Florida, but I've never seen anything like Tennessee or Mississippi, but maybe I'm wrong, it's still not considered 'the south' I didn't make that rule, it's just how it is. And about bias news, all news is bais, but BBC, CNN, and CBS are all incredibly left, all they ever did was bash Bush, but then again thats what you like to see, right?

[FiSHr.]: .......

[Sven Welkenson]: Wow you people are funny. So far the comments "our country will be blown up in the next month with Bush in office" and "Bush is a dusbag" have been the funniest. Mind to elaborate on 'dusbag?' This is starting to look a lot like nazi punks fuck off. Bush has been in office for 4 years now, we haven't died and if we do it won't be his fault.

[kduncan]: I wouldn't know about CBS, I never watch it. BBC seems to offer a balanced view of the news, a different view from what we get from our news here in the US. CNN, eh.. they seem to offer both sides, unlike FOX, which has repeatedly bashed the Kerry campaign. One sidedness doesn't appeal to me in a news channel, which is why I rely on C-SPAN mostly, I suppose I'll hear now that C-SPAN leans to the left as well. And hon, you can claim all you want that Florida isn't considered the "south", but that doesn't necessarily make you right. And just so's you know, it's not "how it is". heh.. and anyone who claims that, "I'm not racist, especially not against Hispanics, in fact there is a very nice one

[kduncan]: who goes to my school" comes off sounding a little.. racist. It reminds me of the people who claim, "I'm not racist, especially not against blacks, I have a black friend!" eh, never mind, you just don't seem to be getting the point about stereotypes. I learned long ago that there's no sense in trying to argue logically with someone who chooses not to see.

[Yoruno]: I wanna be a member!! I´ve already put the badge in my house...

[Dil*]: sure i'll add you.

[Yoruno]: Thank you

[Duredhel]: Hmm... I'm debating with myself about becoming a member.... on one hand I don't HATE George Bush... I do disagree with him a LOT though...

[bluefarie]: good enough....

[Peregrinus]: This has gotten crazy. Look, isn't it best if instead of getting upset about any of this and griping our asses off we simply think, strategize, confer, and ultimately come together not under the banner of one political party or another, but under the banner of humanity, so to speak?

[Cat0132]: Okay well if you think I am racist thats retarded, because discriminating against people because they look different, or have a different skin color is the dumbest thing I have ever seen happen, it just makes no sense how anyone could ever think that is right. So if you want to go ahead and assume that I'm racist (which would be really weird considering my best friend is Asian) then I'm outta here, oh C-SPAN, C-SPAN isn't really new coverage, it is in a way, but they are one of the few networks that show speechs from people like Nadar which I admire, I don't think C-SPAN leans to either side really...

[Peregrinus]: Um... right... nevermind... it seems clear that I have made no point, whatsoever...

[Cat0132]: you posted that after I clicked the button...haha

[Peregrinus]: Oh. Well, it still holds then. Aheh, I feel a tad silly...

[Cat0132]: no I agree, its over Bush won face it, and we aren't all going to die, or we would have already. So if you don't feel like sitting it out another 4 years go ahead and move to Canada, though I doubt you will.

[!Rammstein!]: heh thats funny, there are soo many people that were wrong in the poll

[!Rammstein!]: and you would all rather have kerry who would bring back our troops from the world and cut the money that would go towards our nations defence making it even easier for the terrorists to attack us?

[kduncan]: You know, Sesshoumaru~Sama, it's impossible for alot of us to back a president who allows a contractor to make $100,000.00 for six months in Iraq, while the soldiers protecting that contractor make $25,000 a year. Personally, I'd rather it be the other way around.

[Cat0132]: oh yeah, other point about the draft, they might have to change some rules, cause I was bummed to find out I'm to SHORT to be in air force, or even ground forces...damn my parents short genes...

[kduncan]: Lucky for you. Too bad all your friends will be in Iraq without you, huh?

[Cat0132]: what exacly do you mean by that? Most Iraqs arent evil, just the ones that are are the only once given attention cause they are the only ones blowing stuff up...

[Cat0132]: or do you mean the troops? are you trying to diss our troops? I know some people over there so don't even go there.

[kduncan]: No.. what I meant was that with an impending draft, your friends will be in the military, likely in the middle east, and you won't be. Why would you think I was dissing the military? Good grief, get that chip off your shoulder. I happen to have been a civilian flight instructor with the Air Force; I know a good number of military people, and have trained a good number of Air Force pilots.

[Pnelma Tirian]: *sigh* god, I've forgotten how hectic political wikis tend to get. Maybe because I've been trying to avoid them...but that was a question I needed answered. So, what, America's turned into some freaky diplomatic Matrix? the hell?

[Cat0132]: well look at what you said up there, deffiantly sounded derogitory to me. I'm 6 inches to short for air force...it's so not cool...but there isnt going to be a draft, I dont see how you guys believe that

[kduncan]: What I said was, "Too bad for you, all your friends will be in Iraq without you." That's not derogatory, it's a mere statement based on what has happened in the past in similar situations. At the rate American military personel are being killed in Iraq, the voluntary military won't be merely voluntary much longer.. just like what happened with Vietnam. You can't go into a country, blow it to pieces, and expect the people to be thrilled with your presense there.

[Tiezu Star]: shouldnt u take the pool down?

[Pnelma Tirian]: it's spelled "poll." we're not having a pool in the middle of a wiki. Too much of a hassle, and the budget's tight enough as it is.

[Cat0132]: haha it would be SO nice to have a pool though...the military is so big they have to turn people away, besides they dont want to force people to fight, because the only reason they will want to fight then is to save their own butts. Fight wars is now about having small elite forces, not hundreds forced to pick up a gun, they dont want a draft, and they dont need one.

[Tiezu Star]: . . . *twitch* sry for my spelling . . . wen r we taking down the poll? *goes and jumps into the pool*

[Cat0132]: NO! *saves thorn*

[Tiezu Star]: WTF! i went for a swim! and u nevr answered me about the poll

[Cat0132]: oooo I though you were going to drown yourself haha, oh I dunno, I dont run this wiki.

[Tiezu Star]: *rolls eyes then dives under*

[Cat0132]: *sigh* well I think I permenatly damaged my ears today...hohum...

[Doormat]: maybe your brain too? please take your lame comments out of this box...you see its for comments, not random crap comments.

[Cat0132]: Ok then, oh yeah, meant to ask you guys has anyone seen Canadian Bacon here?

[Pnelma Tirian]: oooh, are we discriminating?

[Cat0132]: against me? I might say so, but I'm not going to mention that, at least I don't say 'shud up' haha, still get a laugh out of that, but once again has anyone here seen Canadian Bacon?

[Doormat]: umm...sure discriminate against canada all you want....dont worry, we wont start a "holy" war or a war on "terror" because of your comments

[Cat0132]: ITS A MICHEAL MOORE FILM, I'm just wondering if you have seen it.

[Doormat]: umm...okay....go back to your little support bush hole.....if you're going to debate about bush, do it, if you aren't go back.

[Shee A'beanne Alainn]: yeah...no kidding, we don;t have the force...all fear or hockey players....

[Pnelma Tirian]: ah. I see we have a SERIOUS problem with Republicans.\

[Doormat]: yes....burn them...i think pig fat burns pretty well

[Shee A'beanne Alainn]: Hmm...Me...repulicans are conservative, no more support them...What the hell is going on here?

[Cat0132]: I doubt anyone there has seen it so I wondered if any of you Micheal Moore fans have, must admit I really liked that movie, even though it bashed Bush Senior all the way through, and what shee?

[Shee A'beanne Alainn]: I dunno what, thats what I was asking is what?....Movie ok..I get..I thought we were back on te Canada no going to war thing...la la la

[Cat0132]: no, all well, see the movie, it's so funny, I'm surprised you haven't seen it already...

[Shee A'beanne Alainn]: hmm will do...If I can find it...

[Pnelma Tirian]: ...well, at least we know that no matter what happens, America will always have an idiot in the White House, whether Republican or Democrat. And I don't remember tying any Democrats to the stake, so why should you burn a Republican?

[Cat0132]: yay! It's also John Candy's last film, ah great movie, ok then since Diablo is in a sour mood (probably because Bush won) I'll be leaving now BUT WATCH THAT MOVIE.

[Shee A'beanne Alainn]: Alright.....

[Dil*]: It's funny really, none of these bush supporters came to this wiki before bush won. What's with that, finally got the guts to come here? ([Cat0132] is an exception..she came here sometimes)

[Pnelma Tirian]: hmm? Oh, I don't support Bush. I don't support anyone who ran for president. So I said that I "Supported the Communist Party." It works.

[Pnelma Tirian]: And also, I think they were scared that they'd be immediately hanged, quartered, tied to the stake, shoved in an Iron Maiden...that sort of stuff. After they saw you were too "devastated" to weild horrible designs of death on them, they creeped out of the woodwork. That's my theory, anyway.

[amalie]: hehe, sounds abouth right

[Cat0132]: Or maybe 'supressed' like those dead voters in Chicago...voter supression...what a joke, I'm wondering if Moore got any footage (geniunely I am) but he hasn't said anything since the election.

[Pnelma Tirian]: Democrats are so violent. ><;;

[Doormat]: ummm eldheler would you like a tent or are you going to do something?

[Rondel]: [Cat0132], if you'll check my comment, you'll find that I didn't say you were racist. I said that you seem to want Florida's "Southernness" judged based on stereotypes, yet when someone acknowledges the statistically low literacy rate in Tennessee, you complain about the stereotyping of Southerners. I don't understand how you can reconcile a position that is both against, and in favour of, stereotyping (particularly of Southerners). So far as I can tell, your argument is that Southerners aren't racist, but Florida isn't Southern, because of its heavily Hispanic population (which you attempt to justify based on your perceptions of Miami, which you now say that you've never even visited).

[Rondel]: I'm sorry that you have difficulty accepting the impersonal and valid nature of comments such as this, and the comment that your mother was underinformed about her political choices based on *your* statement demonstrating that she didn't even know who was and wasn't on the ballot in your state, or the comment that you will not be with your friends in Iraq, fighting America's war there, based on your statement that you're not eligible for the armed services based on your height, in conjunction with the fact that you support the war, and believe that it should only be fought by those who support it. Also, FYI, you didn't name my news sources in your list of "leftist media" (I'm in Australia).

[Rondel]: My point is that you need to see this issue on a less personal level, if you are going to be a useful and credible supporter of your position. The issues here (such as Bush leading the world into a war based on false data and assumptions) are pretty straightforward; if you look past the personal material with which you've been trying to cloud the issue (your holiday snaps, for crying out loud?), you'll find that when it comes to Bush, to a person who has access to news which has been largely suppressed in the US media, the issues become quite clear. Do you support a new Crusade? Or not? Plunder and the chance to battle the Islamic Empire for control of the Holy Land -- sound familiar?

[kduncan]: Her's a question for Eldheler: You say you (and your mother) don't believe in what Greens believe in. Well, here's a list of the Green party's Ten Key Values; tell us, which ones do you disagree with? 1. Grassroots democracy. 2. Social justice and equal opportunity. 3. Ecological wisdom. 4. Non-violence. 5. Decentralisation. 6. Community-based economics. 7. Feminism and gender equaity. 8. Respect for diversity. 9. Personal and global responsibility. 10. Future focus/sustainability.

[Doormat]: don't confuse her with big words like "democracy", "Greens", and "sustainability"....you might make her feel inferior and leave this place ^-^

[dominoe]: kk

[kduncan]: shhh, DiabloJr., we're friendly folks.. remember? ;)

[BarleySinger]: Hmmm...the only one of those Ten Key Values that a Bush style republican would be interested in, is #5 ... and not all of them are even for that one. Remember that to a Neoconservative republican, democracy does not mean "one person, one vote" it means "1 dollar, one vote"...just like with share holders in a company...

[kduncan]: Good god Eldheler, you say they don't need a draft and they don't want one? Did you even look at S. 89 and H.R. 163?? That's not some radical left-wing site I directed you to, that's direct from the congressional mouth.

[Duredhel]: http://www.gwbushjokes.com/ check out this site (this is not meant to be a political argument or statement if any kind, just found them funny)

[bluefarie]: cool...

[Cat0132]: You can't run a goverment with those 10 ideas/rules, what are greens ideas on things like abortion and gay marriage? I'm guessing they are ok with gay marriage, but what about abortion? They may believe in peace, but do they believe in force when necessary? The greens remind me to much of idealistics, nothing in the world is ideal, you can't get some people to be civil, like Saddam, or Osma, it's just not possible. "Humans seem to believe that if they believe in something else hard enough it will be possible" something I read today, which I absolutly see as true. And I am not a 'Bush Republican' I am hardly Republican, I just find Bush a better alt. to anyone else who ran this year.

[Cat0132]: and to Diablo I would expect something more intelligent comming out of your mouth (or fingers actually...since you are typing) I have a great respect for your sister, yet whenever you build it up you tear it down with stupid comments like that. If you have seen the SNL skits of the 2000 election I shall quote Al Gore (well the person acting as his) "I think that was a attack on my integrity. But I will not reply in a similar fashion, I will instead put those comments away, in a lock box, where all bad thoughts go." and well, if you havent seen that, then you wouldn't understand...

[bluefarie]: oh my god tons of writing i'll never read it all..:)

[Cat0132]: that happens to me too, I'm a bit wordy, doesn't help I have dyslexia to make matters worse...no wonder I fail english...

[bluefarie]: ohhhhh....im srry..

[kduncan]: Eldheler, you can run a government on abortion and gay marriage issues alone? I put forth values such as gender equality, social justice, ecological wisdom.. and you come back with abortion and gay marriage??

[Cat0132]: they like the ideas...but nothing else, doesn't help I find english the stupidest subject taught in school.

[bluefarie]: yup it is...

[Cat0132]: Those are the two BIGGEST issues (other then war on Iraq and terrorism) in this country right now, and since the green party either A) isnt publicisized enough or B) don't put themselves out as much as they could, not many know greens standing on those issues. I understand your values, and I respect them, but then again alot of people have those 'values' yet never follow through, like most 'Christians' that are supost to be 'accepting' but they aren't (not picking on Christianity, it's just the first thing that popped into my head).

[kduncan]: No, abortion and gay marriage are not the two biggest issues facing our country, the war in Iraq is. Gay marriage was a smokescreen, it hasn't been mentioned anywhere.. not once.. since the election. Abortion hasn't been mentioned, not once, since the election. Bush uses unimportant, but very volatile subjects, like abortion and gay marriage to throw people off, to deflect their thinking, and to steer them away from the really important issues like.. the war in Iraq and the fact that major combat is not, in fact, over.

[bluefarie]: oh...dear...X!

[kduncan]: Don't lump Greens and Christians, one's a political party, and one's a religion. That alot of people don't the values they hold up for others to follow (like Bush, the Christian, lieing about why we invaded Iraq: WMD's, or terrorist liason, or liberation. Yes, you follow a liar as your leader) shouldn't be a reason to condemn a group of people who you profess to know little about. You respect the values.. yet you would choose a leader who doesn't hold them. Do you even realise how very foolish a statement that is? Do you realise how hypocritical that is? So Greens are a new party in the US, we are growing.. rapidly.. because people are realising that Greens tell the truth about the state of

[Cat0132]: Notice whats in the ( ), and I know how greens feel about that, ok well I guess if you dont find millions of babies dieing and hundreds of overjoyed and hundreds of outraged people a 'issue' but I deffiantly do. Iraq is a mess, I will admit that, and they should have fixed Fallujah (sp?) a long time ago, and I hope the attack on it goes smoothly. Don't give me crap about how Bush went without UN suport, Clinton went into Yugoslavia without UN support, I didn't hear many complain about that.

[bluefarie]: geez... boy u guys sure can type a lot....

[amalie]: i agree whit [kduncan] on this one, but i have a werry big problem understanding how people can argue abouth something like that. people should be aloved to live theyr lives whit out big brother deciding what or who they can do.

[kduncan]: our country. Not knowing that a group holds a set of values isn't a reason to dismiss those values. You admit to admiring the values.. why stay with a political group who doesn't hold those values? Why not join the only political party that does hold those values? Did you know that the Green party is the ONLY party that corporations can't buy in the US? Do you know why we can't be bought? Because it's in our bylaws that we will NOT accept corporate funding. Ever single penny we get is from a private individual. Take THAT to the Republicans and Democrats and put that up as a challenge. 500 million were spent by those two parties on the presidential campaigns alone, do you know what 500

[kduncan]: million dollars could have done in this country? 500 million for the presidential race alone.. think about it.

[Cat0132]: I'm not lumping them, I'm just saying 'ideas' arent often put into a practice. I don't believe ideals are often followed very well, by ANYONE, cause they are ideals, and no one is ideal. It's just how it is, in our constitution it says 'all men are created equal' great ideal, yet wasn't put into practice for so long, and it still isn't, and never will be. You do agree with me that nothing is ever perfect? no person, no country, no goverment, no religion, nothing is ever perfect, but some, and I hope most try to strive for ideals like equality, but it's never going to happen.

[kduncan]: Ok.. fill me in .. how Greens feel about ( ) what?

[bluefarie]: yep...

[amalie]: nothing is perfect, but it can be a lot bether than what Bush is doing

[bluefarie]: yup...

[Cat0132]: It is a shame, that all that money was put to such a WASTE, I was thinking about that this morning, we could have done SO MUCH with that money and it just got thrown away. It made me really angry too, cause then my Spanish teacher told out class about a house that burnt down near Boston with 22 Hispanics living in it, the problem is only 2 are legal immigrants, so the landlord wont give them back there money and they can't get a laywer since the laywer would be oblicated to turn them in. Just the tiniest fraction of that money would have helped them so much, but it's completely wasted on attack ads and banners, its ridiculous, such a waste of money...we could have done so much to help

[Cat0132]: other people and countries...it makes so angry and frustrated at how grossly unbalanced everything is.

[Cat0132]: No I put 'other then the war on Iraq and terrorism' in the ( )

[kduncan]: So, let me see if I'm understanding this correctly: You don't like the green party because it's a little too perfect, a little too ideal. If it seems so perfect, has good values.. which you admit to agreeing to.. it has to be wrong somehow. Ok.. makes perfect sense to me.  Are you for real???

[Cat0132]: and Amalie are those all typos or how you spell words?

[Cat0132]: I don't find them perfect ideals, because the fact is not everyone is entirely equal. Lets say someone gets in a car accident and is paralized neck down, they aren't a equal runner as someone who isn't paralyzed, it's not there fault, it doesn't make them dumb, doesn't mean they aren't strong, they are different and need different needs. Ack I dont think I'm getting my point across very well, I said I respected your ideals, not that I agree with all of them.

[kduncan]: What the consitution says is that all men are created equal. What that is presumed to mean is that all men (people) have the same rights as every other man (person). A person in a wheelchair, though s/he may not be able to walk, is no less entitled to the same rights that a person who can walk has. Even a disabled person, though having different needs, has the same rights as an able bodied person. Do you not believe that?

[Cat0132]: You also still havent answered my question about how the Green party feels about Abortion and Gay Marriage, cause I don't know and I would honestly REALLY like to know, and if they don't have a clear standing on it thats ok, I'm just curious.

[kduncan]: The Green aprty doesn't have a "party" stance on gay marriage or abortion, because it's not a governmental issue.. it's an individual issue that each person has to decide for his or herself.

[Cat0132]: Oh I wasn't going back to the consitution, I know that is what they meant, we have been doing that for a week in history. And I strongly believe that the should have the same rights, I don't doubt that for a second.

[Cat0132]: Well most democrates believe both are constitional and should be allowed, yet most Republicans are the opposite (though yes there ARE exceptions) I was just wondering if it is the same for Greens...

[kduncan]: Then your question about equality above makes no sense. It also indicates that you feel some people are a little less equal than others.

[Cat0132]: You said one of your values is equality, or do you mean it in the consitional way? or more like a communist way? same with women, do you believe they should have the same rights or that they are equal in all ways with men?

[kduncan]: What Democrats believe is that there is NO provision in the constitution to disallow abortion. They also believe (and they're correct in my opinion, and this is not a GREEN opinion, but my own.) that under the constitution, to disallow gays to marry is to discriminate specifically against only them based on their sexual preference. You do know, don't you, that at one time it was illegal for blacks and whites to marry. Thank god we're a bit more enlightened now.. not alot, but a bit.

[kduncan]: Women are not equal in all ways with men, obviously women are not as physically strong as men. Of course, neither are men equal in all ways with women.. I never have heard of a man able to give birth yet. However, we should have exactly the same rights, and men should have the same rights as women. The first part of your question I simply don't understand.

[Cat0132]: Oh course I know that, my whole family is from the south and my mom (who homeschooled me through most of elemetary school) made sure I knew everything about American history she could teach me, which was alot. I know all about the segregation of the south and Martin Luther King (someone I look up to and I wish I could be as brilliant and as brave as him) I remember writing a very long essay on all of that. And yes thank God we ARE more enlighted, about so much, but I'm disgusted at a kid in my class currently who has no empathy AT ALL towards illegal immigrants, I think if I lived in the time of segregation I would go insane. I don't disagree with gay marriage, (which is one reason I am

[amalie]: english is my 3 language, cant get everything right

[Cat0132]: not far to the right, or agree with my parents on alot of things) though, I can see why people are upset about it. What really annoys me about it though is it was ruled, not voted on by the people, but I am glad we finally got over that block in the road, I hope people become more open minded about it. Though there was that mayor in California who was illegally marrying gay/lesbian couples, now that is illegal and I DON'T agree with that, he had no reason to put himself above the law. Abortion I believe is murder, I believe when a sperm and a egg unite and make a unique DNA it is life and to kill it is a horrible act, then again thats me, but it really makes me want to puke.

[Cat0132]: Oh ok, its great you know so many languages I would love to know so many! thats WONDEFUL! (and I'm being serious, but some people spell that way because they think it looks cool...and its really not)

[kduncan]: Rosa Parks violated the law by refusing to move to the back of the bus.. was she wrong?

[kduncan]: And what if that unique DNA is determined to be horribly deformed at birth, so much so that it's not expected to survive past the first few minutes of birth?

[Cat0132]: I can't word things well sometimes...ack, all well, but I agree with men and women should have the same rights, just as any race, religion should have the same rights. I guess I'm sortof an oddball in the world, I don't really have a party, nor a religion, nor can you fit me into a steryotype (how I think those are retarded, but thats the world I am forced to visit 5 days a week- highschool)

[amalie]: thats the world everyone have to suffer trough in high school

[Cat0132]: Rosa Parks was in no way wrong, maybe she could have found a better way to protest, but when a goverment offical steps over a line like that and mistreats the power given to him by the people and the state, that is wrong, and I don't believe he is gay himself, while Rosa Parks was African American.

[Cat0132]: And has no one here heard of miracles? A family friend of mine had a baby months to early, it wasn't suppost to survive, yet it did and it's perfectly healthy now, babies are more resilent then people seem to think. Give the baby a chance.

[amalie]: i must say of the party`s in my contry i prefere: the Socialist Left Party, cause its the one i dislike the least

[kduncan]: Rosa Parks was not wrong, she committed an act of civil disobedience that ultimately forced our wrong laws to be changed.. the same as the mayor in California. The law is wrong, and he was performing an important act to challenge a wrong law. It doesn't matter that he is of the group that is being discriminated against, any more than it was important that the people who helped the Jews during WWII weren't Jewish. It's the courageous act that is important, not the nationality, race, sexuality, etcetera of the person performing the act.

[amalie]: personaly i dont like abortion, but i belive that i dont have the right to decide what someone else should do whit theyr life

[kduncan]: Exactly, Amalie.

[amalie]: my path is mine, everyone else have other paths, and they have to find them on theyr own

[Cat0132]: I like what Rosa Parks did, I still dont agree with him, though I do see your point. I see your point as well Amalie and yet, "i belive that i dont have the right to decide what someone else should do whit theyr life" the parents (and I put responsiblity on both) are deciding what that baby does with it's life - and that is absolutely NOTHING.

[kduncan]: So you would rather see a person, a baby in this case, live in pain for it's entire short liife, than not to have lived at all? That seems horribly inhumane.

[Cat0132]: You arent giving the baby a CHANCE to live, you sound like the husband of the woman who is on life support (names are slipping my mind) who wants to take her off life support (which would kill her) because "she wouldn't want to live like this", that DISGUSTS me, that someone who should love this woman unconditionally would rather kill her then give her the support she needs?

[kduncan]: Because my partner is a health care professional who deals with dying people on a daily basis. These people are put on morphine to ease their excrutiating pain. It's not cruel to allow someone to die, it's worse to keep them alive, and in pain, artificially. My partner can't even go into these places because it breaks his heart to see how much pain some of these people are in. Is that the right thing to do? To keep them alive just so we can have them around? I hope no one ever loves me enough to keep me around in excrutiating pain just because they feel it's wrong to let me die. It disgusts me that people are so inhumane, that they think of themselves and their own sense of loss rather than

[kduncan]: the other person being in so much pain.